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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  August 13, 2019 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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monday night as we start a new week. thank you for here with us and good night. we are now learns of serious irregularities. >> announcer: as fbi agents swarm jeffrey epstein's private island. >> we will get to the bottom of what happened centers tonight what we know and where the investigations go from here. then -- >> president trump's administration is reinforcing the ideals of self-sufficiency and personal responsibility. >> julian castro on the new white house plan to penalize legal immigrants for needing benefits. plus -- >> can you add what amy and what diane have, can we add them in? >> amy klobuchar on whether we should believe the president on passing new gun safety laws.
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and what we're learning about what could be the worst russian nuclear disaster since children noble. "all -- chernobyl. "all in" starts now. it's been more than two days since jeffrey epstein, accused of sex trafficking, was found dead by apparent suicide. investigators are trying to figure out what happened. he was accused of troosking girls as union at 14 for sex, and faced 45 years in prison if convicted. part of the reason why the death ofevery epstein is so surprising, it was just last month when he was found injured in his cell, semiconscious with marks on his neck. he was on suicide watch at that time. it was three weeks ago, did you sweet spite that sources say he was not on suicide watch at the time of his death. the guidelines for epstein's jail unit called for correction officers to check on inmates every 30 minutes.
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that did not happen. according to an administration official, quote, a number of hours lapsed between checks on epstein's cell. the officials also said that he did not have a cellmate which violated protocols. shortly after he was pronounced did i, the fbi launched an investigation into the circumstances surrounding his death. the weird thing is the timing. the news of his death early saturday morning came on the heels of a huge document dump from just the day before, filled with explosive allegations. we got nearly 2,000 pages of court documents from a woman who said jeffrey epstein kept her as a sex slave. in the unsealed documents that landed on friday, she alleges that epstein also directed her to have sex with several high-powered men, including former new mexico governor bill richardson, britain's prince andrew, former senator george mitchell, and attorney alan dershowitz. epstein was also known to have relationships with bill clinton, tony blair and president donald
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trump. video shot by nbc in 1992 shows jeffrey epstein attending a party thrown by trump at mar-a-lago. the two can be seen laughing and talking here. epstein's death raises several pressing questions, including how could this happen? but also what happens to the investigation into epstein an his associates now. joining me now are jonathan dienst, and nbc news contributing correspondent, harry siegle, senior editor at "the daily beast." jonathan what is the latest? >> the latest is fbi was searching his virgin islands estate looking for any additional evidence regarding the sex trafficking ring he was running and if there's any evidence there who survived him. in the meantime, the attorney
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general today expressing his anger, his disgust at how this could happen, one of the most high-profile, important inmates in current time found hanging did ed in a jail cell, in one of the most secure facilities certainly here in the northeast, and the question is how could this have happened, how could they have not been watching him more closely? some correction officer union officials point out that the defense and epstein had been imploring him to be taken off suicide watch. he was stuck in a cell on his own being watched literally around the clock after the first apparent suicide attempt. some thought it was a ruse, but he wanted out of that. the bedding -- there is no bedding, just a mattress. he was? a smock. he was isolated. we're told they even wanted him in general population. so the defense was asking for it, apparently after some psychological evaluations, they
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agreed to move him back into a cell. he was put in a cell, we're told, with a roommate for a time, but that roommate was recently released jeff re epstein was on his own for about 24 hours, and parent was not reached for about 24 hours. i've had heard anywhere from three hours to six hours, where he went unchecked during that overnight until he was discovered at 6:30 in the morning, apparently hanging by a bed sheet, whether it was. >> do you have any information about whether he met -- >> i believe my colleague tom winter has confirmed there was a meeting through about 6:30 on friday, that he was have a meeting with his attorney. there was no obvious sign of major distress or difficulty. you'll remember epstein hated being in that prison.
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he wanted, we're told, to go down into the legal briefing room. he was paying his lawyers to come every day for hours and hours, just so he didn't have to be in the common area, the right to meeting with his lawyers and paying to meet with them day in and day out. >> there's just so many questions. how is it that a prisoner goes hours without being seen? how is it, if the possible is he's supposed to be checked every 30 minutes, that that's not the case. how is it he was off the suicide watch after an apparent suicide attempt? maybe some of that understanding comes from somebody who understands what that prison looks like. that's you. >> the first thing i think that's important to understand, even in prison money talks. it buys you hours out of your cell.
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it helped epstein get off suicide watch. i know he had been asking a few other prisoners for their inmate numbers that would have been helpful in different ways, presumably in order to transfer money into their accounts. the conditions at mcc are not good. frankly they're not good for the officers who worked there, either. it's a difficult place to work, in part because it's manhattan. you have these overtime shifts. of the two officers who were there that night, one was on the fifth done sec tiff night of overtime. i would bet that officer had been sleeping in his car outside the facility, because there's not time to get or and get back from your next double shift. the other had been ordered to come in and fill that shift. this is a huge problem through the federal system, where they'll take you if you're a janitor or a clerical worker, and you've had a couple weeks of training. they say you're a corrections officer for the day. so in this very broad level, we are imprisons more people than we're able to pay you have to in prison. the decline in conditions is such it's much less -- the policy wouldn't be followed overnight. the two officers might just sleep, and not make the rounds,
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and expect nothing to happen. that something like this could happen just out of profound incompetent. it's offensive for attorney general william barr to saying we're discovering the problems there. >> because people know about this. people who covered prison in this country understand this. >> it's no secret with the seasonal and no secret with mcc. >> jonathan, there'sen an autopsy of jeffrey epstein. it's said they need more time to come to a conclusion, but they're not working with any theory other than they believe he took his own life. >> every official we have spoken to, it appears to be a suicide. that is what they're working off of, but the medical examiner will not make that determination until the fbi and internal investigators can complete their work to determine no one handed them something so he could kill himself.
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no one was paid to go the other way, to make sure there was nothing untoward. as of now there's absolutely nothing to suggest any sort of criminal conspiracy or crime or assault, suicide is the only thing on the table, and the question is, what else went on that was improper? >> there may have been something that facilitated that, or maybe not. >> they're going to look into that, whether there was any facilitation. as of now, we have had heard of nothing that relates to that. maybe in time it shifts to the internal investigation into mismanagement and just some bad decisions that perhaps took place at the mcc, because no one, certainly an inmate like this should not die in a medical facilities. thank you for your continued reporting on this. as we get new information, wee bring it to our viewers. i'm joined by nick acerman, former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. knick, there are a lot of people
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who finally thought they were going to get justice, because they were going to be able to see jeffrey epstein in court. now that's not going to happen. >> i think it is going to happen. i think we'll find the indictment charged him with conspiracy, which means there was more than one people. when the deal was cut in florida that he made with the feds and the state, that he got some agreement with the state to basically not go after other co-conspirators who are listed by name. >> which folks have never really understood what that's about. >> it was florida giving that immunity. that doesn't bind the federal government on this. the fact of the matter is the victims will receive justice. the people named as
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co-conspirators, i am almost certain will be ultimately indicted. we know a couple because their names have been mentioned in the press, but i would think that the federal government now is under immense pressure to determine whether or not those people can be indicted. the paramount concern here is the victims, to bring justice to the victims who have suffered all these years. initially when this matter came up, they were not consulted when the deal was made in florida. now this, jeffrey epstein slips away by killing himself. so i think the government feels that, i'm sure, that they have got to bring closure to this by making certain that everybody, anybody who was involved in this whole sordid period is brought to justice. >> so typically, when you're trying to get to the head of something, you turn people who are lower, and maybe pay less attention to them where they suffer lesser consequences, if jeffrey epstein is the person at the top of something that is a conspiracy, and he's gone, does that mean that the power of the law, the strength of it now focuses on other people who are in there? there are a lot of
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investigations into who facilitated this. do those people get a brighter light on them? >> oh, i think so. i think they'll get an extremely bright light on them. now that we know -- there's probably a list in this florida deal. i'm sure the federal government has ha list. they know who was exempted out of that deal that jeffrey epstein had back in florida. that's the road map. those are the people the federal government will be looking at. the fact they got immunity in florida does not bind of federal government. it's two separate governments. even with the u.s. attorney's office agreement doesn't necessarily bind other u.s. attorney offices. i don't think anybody has seen the papers that relate to this agreement, but if it's like any other standard agreement that i used as a prosecutor, it's going to be binding only as to the southern district of -- it does
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not bind 9 southern district of new york. let me ask about the civil side of things. there have been civil actions taken against jeffrey epstein, and plans for others. the bar is generally lower, and this is a guy with a lot of money. with him being dead, does that fundamentally make it harder or easier to make a claims on his estate for these claims that these women have? >> i guess in some ways it might make it harder and easier. there's two sides to this. if you have a civil case and you brought jeffrey epstein in, and you started asking him questions, just as he did in the
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other civil case, he would assert his fifth amendment against criminal investigation. in the criminal context, you cannot count that against somebody, you cannot take an adverse inference in a criminal case, because someone refuses to testify. in a civil case, the rules are difference. so one question is when jeffrey epstein took the fifth amendment in this other civil case that was ultimately settled. will they be able to use that testimony they've got all of this evidence that i'm sure they'll have all these women that were at one point or another victims. there's lots of fill evidence. evidence has been uncovered in his safety here in manhattan. i'm sure they're uncovering more evidence. i think the victims will not only 16th june, but also on the civil side. >> it's a remarkable story. nix acerman former u.s. attorney in criminal defense attorney in the southern
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district of new york. coming up next the trump administration announces a new policy targeting legal immigrants. julian castro joins me, calling the move immoral and unconstitutional. after this.
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the last time sarah huckabee sanders actually took questions was on march 11th. the white house which clean up the briefing room for special cases, such as when stephen miller took the podium.
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today they announced a new policy that could make it harder for legal immigrants to obtained permanent legal status. the new rule is set to take effect in two months. today reports pushed back on the policy, pointing to this country's long history of welcomic people of all backgrounds. >> is that sent meant still operative in the united states? or should those words come down? >> well, i'm certainly not prepared to take anything down off the statue of liberty. here with me, julian castro of texas, good to see you, sirs. the poor and huddled masses don't seemed to be as involved.
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does this look like favorite wealthy over the poor in terms of immigration policy? >> what it looks like is this administration is not just against undocumented immigrants. it's also against legal immigrants. on top of that, it seems to only want immigrants that look a certainly way. i believe what they are looking for, it seems like, well to do immigrants from some european countries. the reporters today that push back, and you played a bit of that audio, i think, were very apt to do so, given the history of this country. before 1924, people could come to this country -- we didn't have the same system of immigration laws we have now, and a lot of those folks, and our country will tell you that their grandparents or great-grandparents came here with nothing, and yet -- and i think this is an important point, a lot of those folks helped build the great nation.
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they started off with nothing, but they were able to become successful small business owners or good employees and pass on, you know, wealth to their children and their grandchildren. that's how we built up this country. what this administration is doing, without literally taking the words off that plaque, is effectively that's what they're doing. >> you know, when we think about these stories that we're talking about, that go back from the '20s and '30s back into the 1800s, we talk about grit and the amend biggs and the harrowing journey that could have killed them on the boat to american m., and we seem to value that as contributing to the fabric of america leading to that american dream, to come here with ambition, to pros prospers. what has change? why is it different if they're walking across the desert or coming in for the same purposes? they have ambition, and they would like to make their fortune and prosper in america. >> i don't think anything is different.
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if you look at this generation of immigrants, they are every bit as entrepreneurial, every bit as hardworking, believe in the country as much as anybody else. so i think the point that needs to be asked is, why is donald trump so interested in cutting off this generation of immigrants? it goes back to what he's displayed from the beginning of his political career, from birtherism, to the way he started the campaign, about the comments about the mexican-american judge, to his he comment about illan omar. he wants a whiter, healthier nation. you dealt with some of the people who are recipients of the very thing that this administration is now saying will prevent you if you are -- if you are an immigrant from get a green cart. what's the association?
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if you -- you won't be a contributing member of society. >> i saw the exact opposite when i was the secretary of housing. i saw a lot of people in public housing, or receiving housing choice voucher, on some sort of assistance, they were hardworking. or some of them were people who were down on their luck, but they had been hardworking and they wanted to be hardworking again. they were trying to get on a productive path in life. so this idea that just because you partake in some government benefits, the idea that you're somehow lazy or you have no value to the community or to the country, i mean, you know, that couldn't be further from the truth. it couldn't be further from the truth. there's an ulterior motive this president has, which is that he
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wants to create a country in his own image. he wants to chill the ability of both undocumented immigrants and, in this case, legal immigrants, to actually participate in american life. i think he hopes that more of them will never apply or be able to apply to become permanent residents, you can connect the dots between this to that citizenship question on the census that the administer so badly wants, to all of the actions he's taking at the border that are cruel, separating families. it's one consistent show of a president who is a racist, and basically wants a whiter, wealthier nation. >> let's talk about section 1325 of the immigration nationality act which you have called for repealing. this is the basis on which which they deportation started under this administration, that was the crime in many cases.
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the average american doesn't think, when they think about immigrants creating crimes, they're not entirely sure it was the first crime, which is articulated in 1325, that's cross been unlawfully. you think that should be eliminated, it should not be a crime to cross into the country unlawfully? >> that's right. before this law was passed in the 1920s, but from the 1920s until about 2004, it was actually rarely enforced as a crime. it was enforced -- it was still illegal. there were still consequences to crossing the border, but those consequences were civil consequences, not a criminal misdemeanor, which 1325 makes it a criminal misdemeanor. most people, you know, listening, i think, it's news to them that, for instance, the deportation process, and the asylum process, all of that is civil.
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that is not criminal. however, this administration, the trump administration began weaponizing the misdemeanor part of this, 1325, to incarcerate migrant parents and separate them from their little children. so i have said, look, we can address the consequences for crossing the border and maintain border security without 1325 that has allowed this administration to cruelly treat migrants. i want to make sure no future administration has that tool in the toolbox. >> secretary, good to talk with you. thank for you joining us, 2020 presidential candidate julian castro. new details on how the dayton shooter got his weapon, and more. that's next. and more that's next. eight days after the mass murder in dayton, a friend of managingaudrey's on it.s? eating right and staying active? on it! audrey thinks she's doing all she can to manage her type 2 diabetes and heart disease, but is her treatment doing enough to lower her heart risk?
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eight days after the mass murder in dayton, a friend of the shooter has admitted to authorities that he bought the armor and ammunition used. ethan kollie told agents he bought the body armor, equipment for the gun and 100-round magazine that the shooter later used. prosecutor prosecutors have charged him with lying on forms, but they don't consider him a conspirator. the "new york post" reports that the president told a room full of republican donors on friday that, quote, we need meaningful background checks.
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it is time. we've had heard this rhetoric from the president before, so is this time any different? joining me now to answer that question and more, 2020 candidate, senator amy klobuchar, who just recently released her own gun safety proposal. senator, we talked about that a bit, and i want to talk more about it today. do you believe there's real move from the president of the united states on real, meaningful gun control? >> you know, ali where i wrote down that nine times he said that he wanted to see the back-ground checks down. which more and more information is coming out about this shooter, this killer, as well as others. it turns out that about half of these matt shooters, cold to a as well as the background checks. and then he folds.
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my guess is instead of pushing mitch mcconnell, which he could have done with one phone call to bring on this, he decided to wait until the fall, hoping that public opinion will somehow lessen. >> so things like the boyfriend loophole, which fit into the larger rubric of background checks, even into the red flag laws, which also states have taken up. this is the low-hanging fruit of gun sense. the slightly more complicated stuff is things like an assault weapons ban, which you co-sponsored to reinstate. none of whom were republicans. what kind of political support is there for these various stages of things, particularly in your state, where people have guns. bring on this, he decided to wait until the fall, hoping that public opinion will somehow lessen. >> so things like the boyfriend loophole, which fit into the larger rubric of background checks, even into the red flag laws, which also states have taken up. this is the low-hanging fruit of gun sense. the slightly more complicated stuff is things like an assault weapons ban, which you
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co-sponsored to reinstate. none of whom were republicans. what kind of political support is there for these various stages of things, particularly in your state, where people have guns. there are a lot of gujz, and people believe that they should have them? >> we have a proud hunting extra dix in minnesota, by the way, where i just was for a 20-county tour, but the point is majority of hunters want to be safety rules in place, and there's a number of hunters that support the background checks, so i think there is growing support. you're right. the red flag law is simply a first step, and closing the boyfriend loophole, which, by
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the way, means that right now if you commit a serious crime of domestic abuse against your wife, you can't get a gun. but if you do it against your girlfriend, you can, which is outrageous. i think there's growing support among hunters, and people in rupp areas to get this done. i would also note that the republican congressman from dayton, which i'm sure he had to do, but came out in favor of banning military-style weapons, as well as magazine limits. to me, the fact that in 30 seconds, one man was able to gun down and kill nine people and injured many more, even though the police couldn't have gotten there faster within one minute, think of that. i think that tells it all to americans and while you'll see a shift. we already voted after parkland to get background checks. i think they'll vote for more. >> you are a united states senator. there's a lot of people who think that even if donald trump decided that he does want to move on this things, you've got another impediment, and that's mitch mcconnell. he's not moving much on this. last week for about 20 seconds everything thought he was being open to basically background checks, an hour and press people
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put on the a statement saying, not really. >> completely. all of these bills are at thinks doorstep. the waiting periods, the background check and the entire violence against women act, which includes my provision that i wrote that now has passed the house on closing this loophole. i think he's going to have to account for this. he's running his own race, of course, against a fighter pilot, amy mcgrath, and at the same time you're going to have people from all over the country wanting to see a change. so change doesn't always happen. i've never seen a moment where it does not cry out for gun safety rules more than this one? >> in the last election, the 2018 election, there was real progress with gun safety candidates. the momentum off the parkland did actually seem to help.
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to what degree will that influence some of your republican colleagues more than the nra influences them right now? in fact i think the gun sense candidates and their organizations spent more money than the nra did. >> i hope this does. in the end this was about lives. this was about the fact that those parkland kids stood up, we so brave, and then kids across the country saw it, and they started talking to their dads and grandpas, that they had hunting in hair family, wait, this won't hundred dollars my uncle dick in his deer stand, we can still hundred dollars and have that rule in place. they marched, and most importantly they voted in record levels in that midterm election. to me this looks a bit lie the gay marriage change where it started in a few states, but we don't have any federal -- and, and what it feels like to me, this was a true grass-roots people that has been going on
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forever, from sandy hook, to whatever las vegas on, but those parkland kids captivated our nation's attention, now these two horrible mass shootings? el paso and dayton have been the last straw he they definitely saw this was an assault weapon. this was a high-capacity magazine that shouldn't be sold in our stores. i think that's the sea change you will see. that debate when he gets back. >> thanks, ali, for covering this. very important. still ahead, what we are learning tonight about the serious nuclear explosion in
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russia and what it has to do with the weapons system that vladimir putin once called invincible. that story is next.
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in the last week we've seen news of two major explosion incidents, one of which we have video, one we don't. this was a arm depot on a russian military base in siberia. it sent shrapnel flying for miles. a fire set off the explosions at the gun depot. one person was killed, several others wounded. thousands were evacuated. some residents managed to snap for the photos of the huge plumes of smoke, but that wasn't even the worst of it. about 2500 miles away, off the coast of the white sea, there was another mysterious explosion that occurred on thursday. we don't have visuals of that "new york times" says it may be, quote, one of the worst nuclear accidents in the region since chernobyl. at least seven people were killed, and russian news media, quote, radiation briefly rose to
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200 times normal background levels. u.s. officials suspect it was a prototype of a nuclear cruise missiles. you can see it in this video played by russian president vladimir putin at his state of the union last year. i'm joined business an expert. jeffrey lewis is the director of the east asia nonproliferation project good to see you, what do you make of this -- the second explosion and the idea that radiation levels were elevated in russia? >> well, i think the evidence right now is pretty overwhelming that this was something nuclear in character, probably the nuclear-powered cruise missiles that vladimir putin showed off, as you said, during his state of the union address. it's not clear how much radiation was released, but this is a serious accident.
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we have a large number of people dead, including five nuclear scientists. how do people like me, who don't really understand that much about nuclear stuff, understand the difference between a nuclear plant like chernobyl and nuclear-powered cruise missile? >> a nuclear powered cruise missile has a little nuclear reactor in it powers the jet engine. you can think of it as a flying tiny chernobyl. the good news is the reactor will be small, the bad news, as
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we've seen it the tech knoll doesn't seem that reliable. it's especially odd if they deploy one of these things, will they have 100? 500? it's a strange technology to choose the night lars agreement that limited the number of arms that the united states and russia has. and we're seeing a complete collapse of the arms control framework, the 1987 intermediate range nuclear forces treaty is gone. i think it's clear that the united states and russia will not extend the very last arms control treaty still standing, the new start agreement. we're entering into this world where there won't be any constraints, and, you know, it's starting to look like an arms race. >> russia, it's widely
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acknowledged, was in breach of its deals anay. china wasn't subject to these restrictions, so what does success look like in terms of deals of this sort? if russia wasn't abiding by it, a and countries were not limited, what should the u.s. be doing at this point? >> the first thing to do is recognize we could let the perfect be the enemy of the good. yes, they were violating the treaty, but not violating the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty. so we do have a treaty in place that governs what are called strategic arms, basically the missiles and bombers that can go from one country do another. that treaty still exists. so, you know, the first thing to do is stop damaging the system. you know, we could go back to
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the negotiating table. we could extend that agreement and then start working on some of the problems. we can talk about russian compliance and talk about ways to bring china in, but people like john bolton are using these problems to walk away and get back to an arms race. >> jeffrey, thank you for joining me. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. untangling the president's 12,000 lies. we'll go through it after this. 12,000 lies. 12,000 lies. we'll go through it after this
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12,000 lies. compare comcast businessr this to your current provider. my current service provider does not provide half of what you provide. and to know that i could save money? i'd be thrilled. this sounds like a whole business package, which would be incredible. so what are you guys waiting for? let's do it. (laughs) comcast business gives you a full suite of products with great performance and value. get fast, reliable internet on the nation's largest gig-speed network for less than at&t. that's 120 dollars less a year. better, faster. i mean sign me up. comcast business.
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beyond fast. hard to keep up with the lies told by president trump. but "the washington post" is keeping up with it, and they've got a number. 12019. president trump has made 12,019 false or misleading claims over 928 days in off. 12,019.
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the fact checker database has been meticulously tracking the s you can see it charted here on a day-to-day basis. it averages out to about 13 false or misleading statements per day according to the "washington post." there is a spike as you can see around the midterm elections last year, and the president's average has recently climbed to about 20 false or misleading statements per day. day after day. month after month. so by august 5th, the most recent day that the post has analyzed, he had crossed the 12,000 threshold. what does that do to this country? at does that do to this country? let your dna take you on the adventure of a lifetime.
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misleading claims made by the president of the united states one of his favorites is that this is the greatest economy in u.s. history. he began saying that about a year ago. he's made some version of that claim 186 times according to the "washington post." but as the "post" notes, by just about any important measure the economy today is not doing as
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well as it did under presidents dwight d. eisenhower, lyndon b. johnson, bill clinton, and ulysses s. grant. president trump has also clachld he passed the biggest tax cut in u.s. history. also not true. for more on the culture of lies and misstatements created by this presidency i'm joined by danielle moody-mills, host of sirius xm's "woke a.f." and rick wilson, a republican strategist and a columnist at the daily beast. welcome to both of you. thank you for being with us. danielle, what do you make of it? at some point whether it's 9,000 or 12,000 or 20,000, which i'm sure it will get to, what do you make of it? because i feel like after the first 10 you put yourself into the bucket of not being able to be trusted. >> i mean, the reality is that after the president was inaugurated "psychology today" put out an article called "the 11 signs, warning signs of gaslighting." this president's gaslighting is a strategy. he does it on purpose. it's to keep us off kilter. it's to make us believe that there is nothing truthful.
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so he tells you one lie after the other and you start to become numb to it. that's what's happening. and so we don't question all of the things that he says. he starts his political career with birtherism. it turns into an entire movement. now he retweets conspiracies about the clintons. and epstein and it doesn't even make front-page news. the whole idea is that he builds this uneasiness so that we trust nothing and no one. and then he projects. he projects lies onto other people. he tells us that other people are crazy. isn't it crazy to tell 13 to 20 lies a day? that should just make you automatically unfit to be president of the united states. and yet here we are. the fact that the "washington post" has this tracker is amazing. but we're numb to it. the public doesn't even care. we have more stories about joe biden's gaffes that he's having than we do about the fact that the president of the united states lies to the american public every day multiple times a day. >> rick, what danielle's talking about was donald trump sharing an unfounded fringe theory about jeffrey epstein's death in prison related to the clintons. a trump official, lynn patton, regional administrator of the
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decht housing and urban development, tweeted out, or posted on instagram that jeffrey epstein was hillaried. what do you think of this theory, though, that it's just meant to keep us off balance? because you don't actually know what the truth is anymore and we certainly don't report on all 12 to 20 lies per day. >> well, donald trump relies on us to talk about the spectacle and not about the substance. and the spectacle, part of it is that he is a lying liar who lies at all times in every way. you know, including the articles a and the in every sentence. they're lies when he says them. and so you end up with a division on the republican side. part of the folks on that side sort of hold their breath and go uh. part of them like it. they think this is part of this new transgressive game he's playing and oh, we're going to own the libs by donald trump producing a river of b.s. every day. you know, and this idea that you're going to promote conspiracy theories as trump has
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done over the weekend since epstein, i mean, it feeds into this desire by the right to redefine what the truth is, what the facts are. obviously, the only logical explanation was hillary doing a high-altitude parachute jump onto the roof, rappelling down the elevator shaft and killing epstein herself. right? by the end of this they'll have these lure sxid crazy theories and they'll believe them. >> this is interesting, danielle. on one hand the criticism is that we don't cover all of the lies. and i get that a lot on twitter, by the way. he lied about this. why didn't you say that? on the other hand, to rick's point, there are laws that are changing. the cfpb is becoming dismantled. the environmental protection agency is becoming dismantled. the endangered species act is under attack. at some point what do we choose? do we choose to talk about how he lied again today about this being the greatest economy in the world or do we ignore the lies? i don't know what success looks like. >> we have to do both and. we have to be able to call out the lies that he's saying and
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also the destructive policies that he's putting out. today he told 13 lies. he's also -- like you said, he's dismantling the protection for endangered species. he's -- >> which is not a partisan matter, by the way. it never has been a partisan matter. republicans and democrats both agreed and republican -- and conservative and liberals the world over agree, protect endangered species. >> right. but this administration doesn't want to protect anything or anyone other than white supremacy. so that's just the fact. but we have to do the work. and that's the thing, is that all of this gaslighting, all of the lies keeps us spinning so that we can't pay attention to everything. but that's the work that donald trump has put on our plates. we have to tell the truth about who he is, what he's doing, how he's manipulating the public and also tell the truth about the policies and who he's hurting and why he's hurting them. >> rick wilson, 15 seconds to you on are there enough republicans to do something about this? >> absolutely not. there are no republicans who will stand up and be brave and tell the president he's a lying liar.
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and the the problem su can't attack the lies retail. you have to attack the liar himself and you have to go at him. none of them are going to do that. >> danielle moodie-mills, rick wilson, thanks to both of you for joining me tonight 37 that is aunl for this evening. >> tonight, two years to the day after that nazi march and the deadly violence in charlottesville, the president has called out for stoking racialism from the very top and for endorsing socialists on the lowest rung of society while he continues to complain about being a racist. jeffrey epstein, a man who knew a lot, had a lot of big name friends, as the president spreads a conspiracy theory, others ask how this could have happened to a famous inmate in a federal facility. and the list that was once considered sacred and the new fear of the innocent victims of the trump administration. "the 11th hour" gets underway on a monday night.

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